View Full Version : Moulton vs Perkins, wats the verdict??
lozzaman
03-12-2006, 13:00
After hearin about the Perkins/ Moulton game bein abandoned, wat does every1 reccon should happen, bearing in mind that Moulton were 2-0 up after 70mins and Perkins had 10men???
From what i hear of the game it was only the actions of one player causing the game to be abandoned. It would surely be unfair to Moulton if the game was replayed and the best solution would be to take the same score and play the remainder of time with perkins having 10 men?
lozzaman
03-12-2006, 15:17
Thats what i thought, or just the 2-0 win awarded.
carefree
03-12-2006, 16:47
won't happen. it will be replayed as with so much time left on the clock it could have been possible for moulton getting a player or 2 sent off and perkins scoring 3 goals, might sound daft but in football anything can happen in 20-30 mins.
DEFO REPLAY!
lozzaman
03-12-2006, 18:23
Yes, but i dont think Perkins had a shot till that point, im sure the Moulton lads would be unhappy to say the least if it were a replay
Im sorry carefree but I do not agree with you. That would mean that in an important match the team that is not having the result go their way could bring on a player that doesn't wish to play football, hit the ref and force a replay! Like you say, anything can happen in football.
Also within the remaining time of play moulton could still have 2 sent off and perkins score 3, even with 10 men.
Thats a scenario that will never happen no team would deliberately send a player on to get a match abandoned.
you're right that the moulton goal was not troubled but how many times have you seen a game where all it would take is two attacks to score two goals?
im definately not saying that it is the right thing to replay the game but it will be replayed.
The Harrox
03-12-2006, 20:39
A big bone of contention and I'm sure the outcome of the final decision will rumble on.
The decision will obviously set precidents as to future outcomes surely.
If the game is to be replayed, what is to stop something similar happening. It doesn't have to be a player coming on as a sub and doing something similar. What's to stop a club member or whoever coming on and doing this sort of thing? Very unlikely, I know but you never know!!!!!!
One player on that team causing the trouble / game to be abandoned. At the end of the day don't we all say it's a team game?????? If so, if your player causes a game to be abandoned then the team surely must suffer.
Result to stand would send out a clear message to any team offending in this way that this sort of thing will not be tolerated.
Play the last 20 minutes if the game at a later date? I guess you are saying with the same remaining 21 players. An option but can you guarantee when all 21 players are available???? Suspensions, injuries or transfers will have a big say in this.
A difficult one for the league committee to decide upon. I for one certainly dont envy them. Anything can happen in football so to look at facts of possession / chances / scorelines at the time is a slight irrelevance. Unless of course the score is say 4 or 5 nil then maybe you could allow the result to stand.
Also, now this has happened, surely there must be a rule introduced for such occasions where the offending team will automatically receive no points and the innocent team receive the win regardless of the score at the time.
Just some thoughts for you to be going on with.
what happened to cause the abandonement??
The Harrox
03-12-2006, 20:56
infringment on the referee
carefree
03-12-2006, 21:07
sorry tuguy but if u fancy a £1,000 bet ill have it with u on this 1. last season 1 of our games was abandond in the 88th with us winning.
out come?
A REPLAY!
its not unheard off i'm sure that a team with only 10 men who were 2 nil down with 25 mins (right spec?) still left 2 play went on 2 get a draw or even the win. (1 for u stato ianh!!)
far 2 much time still 2 run on the clock 4 the result 2 stand mucker
:soo:
Agree with you carefree, definite replay as that's the rules, don't agree with it at all and as Harrox says they should come up with a better solution to favour the innocent team but rules are rules. It's strange that nobody who was at the game has come on and offered an opinion as to what happened, whether it was provoked (not that it would be an excuse)
and at least 3 people who have posted an opinion were at that game.
Are you scared to say who it was ? do you keep quiet to sweep it under the carpet ? the whole point of this site is to discuss local football issues and they don't get more controversial than this, I wasn't at the game and I have heard so many different versions that I wouldn't want to offer an opinion. I will say as a manager though that I hope he gets treated a little bit better than Hookey did by the club when all this is sorted out and the dust has settled, whatever punishment he gets should be the end of it from a playing point of view but it shouldn't be carried on to affect his personal life as well.
Love your post Spec! sounds like a nasty incident, but still none the wiser!! I was at the infamous leverington / psl game, which resulted in a replay, so the precedent is already set for the outcome of the referee enforcing an abandonement of a game due to player/s behaviour.
Carefree, you hoping it replayed so as to perkins might get a result to help you out? :lol:
My personal opinion is that the game and the 3 points should be awarded to Moulton and the player punished accordingly, But league rules dictate otherwise!! Isn't this a bit different to last year with PSL vs Leverington as everyman and his dog got involved and with this being the actions of one individual only?
Feel sympathy for Al/Gino who are trying to build a decent side and club and this has again been tarnished by another individual.
Now I know the player well and he will be truly remorseful in his actions and I hope they take this into account. However it is True that a serious event has occured and so the committee have a tough decision as to what to do as not as clear cut as previous incident from what I hear and also player not at end of career like hookey was!!
Whatever the outcome I totally agree with spec that it should stay within the footballing circles and not get personal. Peopel watching with interest!!
Spider Man
04-12-2006, 10:15
Find myself agreeing with Spec which is a dangerous precedent. All the early posts are about whether game should be replayed and not condeming incident. Not seen 1 post asking if the ref is ok. Points to Moulton if posible and totally different to PSL v Leverington as Moulton completely innocent.
I was at the game, keeping the bench warm, but it all happened while i was in the dressing room putting an extra layer on so i'm not prepared to say what happened because chances are i will get it wrong.
If i were in Moultons position i would want and expect the points.
however its not going to happen.
i take it the ref is okay as no one seems to have shown a great deal of concern for him, more concerned about protecting the player it seems!!
Played in the game for moulton and will feel very harshly treated if we don't get the points, I know there may be certain rules, but as has been said it was only the actions of one player and as a result we seem certain to suffer.
Why the game couldn't continue I dont really understand, as everyone would have been behind the ref, who would have sent out the correct message by not letting one players actions spoil a very good game.
We feel that an away win at Perkins would have been a very big result for us, as they are more than capable of beating anyone on their day.
One or two tackles has gone in but I'm sure both teams would agree it wasn't a bad tempered game in any way, competitve yes, but that's only natural. The player seemed to be getting a bit frustrated and the tackle that started the whole thing off wasn't the greatest, but after that he obviously just lost it for a few moments which is a shame as he is a very good player. At the end of the day we all make mistakes & I'm sure he doesn't need telling.
as someone suggested, could the rest of the game not be played with all teams / scores as they were when the incident happened? Not too difficult surely??
So we''ll wait and see but we're not holding our breath for a positive outcome from our point of view.
That was my thought No3, why can't the game continue ? It's not nice getting a smack in the gob but it hardly puts you on the critical list does it and like you said everyone would have been behind the ref after the incident. Apparently he is new to the area as well so welcome to Peterborough ! He would have earnt massive respect for continuing and like number 3 said sent out a clear message that ref's won't be intimidated by this sort of thing.
Just heard that the player in question has been banned from the club already, nothing like a bit of support when you're down is there !!
jon at the game there was a huge amount of concern shown for ref the people that have commented on here do not know if the ref is ok or not so thats why they have not commented on it not to mention the fact nothing specific has been posted with regards to what happened so people dont even know what they are checking on.
No need for the cloak and dagger stuff lads, just looked on the ETs website and they have named the player and described the incident.
In an ideal the result should stand but i don't think it will!
tom flynn
04-12-2006, 12:05
Deduct Moulton 6 points and award the game to Perkins :lol:
If i had got a smack in the chops, then id have done the exact same thing. Yes it is indeed unfortunate for the teams involved, as the winning team may not get the same result, but an assualt on a referee is just unacceptable, an assualt on anyone is unacceptable.
Infact, i have been in a similar situation, got a clout in the face. In my game, it was the 85th minute, and i abandoned the game. Why should anyone put up with that? Put yourself in the referees shoes for a minute, would you want to continue with a game, where you have just been assaulted?
Sorry to rant on, but just thought someone ought to bring out a referees perspective on this, we can all sit here and spout our could'a should'a would'as, but at the end of it, he has made his decision, and that was to abandon the game.
I wasnt there at the game, so dont know the full details, but thats just my 2 penneth
Spec, a hard man like you would no doubt have carried on but ref's aren't all built like Tommy Flynn or Cooper!!
Just read the ET report. For me it makes it worse that local football may lose one of it's very best players and characters. It's a very sad day for the league and especially for Alex and Gino who really dont deserve the misfortune they have had. Chin up and just like what happened with Leverington / Psl the clubs can be punished and recover. The match can be replayed and hopefully the ref can get the support from his association and all you manager's so that he can carry on reffing!
Can I just clarify that I don't agree remotely with what has gone on and fair play to the ref for abandoning the game if he felt he had to, what I was saying is that it would have sent out a signal to other 'hotheads' that ref's are made of sterner stuff than that, Wall if it had of been me whacked by a player then I would have f****n battered him there and then and offered to carry on reffing afterwards :lol:
Out of interest, what are the rules for abandonment in terms of when a result will stand and when a game is to be replayed? Or is every decision made based on the circumstances for that situation?
Off the top of my head I think the result would stand if less than ten minutes left with a 2 goal lead, might be wrong it has been known !!
As an active referee I am glad I wasnt the one on the receiving end of a clout in the face on Saturday afternoon
With the game being abandoned the referee has followed advice that is given to all referee's relating to assaults from players and that is, to abandon the match.
In this incident the player concerned will probably receive a very long ban from football, first of all he will be charged on probably three counts, the initial sending off, the assault on the match official and causing the game to be abandoned. All that totalled up you are looking at a lengthy ban (probably up to 5 years)
Had the referee continued with the game to a conclusion he would probably have received an ear-bashing from his county and the referees association.
This may not happen but this is how it reads in the Northamptonshire County FA handbook
Some of your decisions yesterday Paul should have led to a public flogging for you :lol: What about the conclusion of the match though ?
Harbs, how long was actually left I have heard 40, 30 and 20 mins :soo:
Hey spec,
I might enjoy the public flogging if the person doing it is a blonde six foot female from Sweden. (best wake up now) :lol:
No matter how long was left on the referees watch the match will all but certainly be replayed and the cost of the replayed game will go to Perkins!!!
Had the referee continued with the game to a conclusion he would probably have received an ear-bashing from his county and the referees association.
Meant to add that to my post
Sounds like the ref's actions were appropriate.
Tough job this reffing lark, if you're not getting a smack in the chops from the players your getting an ear bashing from your "superiors"
I suggest the F.A log onto www.masohism/stopnoimeantharder.com for potential new refs.
Spec i believe there was just over 20 minutes left, only 3 people that would give you a conccrete answer there is the ref and maybe both team managers i think most managers keep a stop watch close by.
carefree
04-12-2006, 20:20
spot on jne :lol: no right what happened to this ref who is new to the pboro league, he has just moved here.
i don't make the rules but it will be a reply! RIGHT STATO?
al wasn't you managing the lord westwood side when scott smacked the ref and got a lengthy ban? i'm sure he's still not playing now and i think it was about 10 years ago!
spoke to george today and nearly all the people who are behind him(but not condoning what he done under any circumstances!) are his mates from whittlesey. times like this when you find out who your real mates are. i'm not condoning what he done at all but he's more or less resigned himself to football retirement now which is a shame cos the peterborough league has lost one of its best players for a moment of madness that he cant get his head around either! he may be a bit of a nutter :lol: but he only brings a strong competitiveness and to be physically violent on a football pitch is totally out of character.
at the end of the day a great shame for everybody involved :sad:
Not totally out of character JB
This player was sent off in the cambs Cup final for hitting an opposing player as the teams went off at half time
If people continue to attack refs in this way we soon wont have any body to take charge of games
Sorry this happened to George but he has to have a long ban as warning to others
Gary Chapman packed up after he was assaulted last year and we lost a bloody good ref
fair enough i remember that but its just a shame as everybody has lost out in this situation and i dont think he will play again. ironic thing is he didn't even want to play this season as he wanted to take a break and renovate his new house so i suppose he'll be able to do that now!
bluestar
04-12-2006, 22:21
didn't take long for you to add your tuppenceworth did it Carrots - Before you start bringing up the past, know the full facts, cos if you did you wouldnt connect the two incidents in any way :blh:
CARROTS - As Bluestar mentions hold off from posting if you do not know the real facts.
I was at the Cambs Cup Final game you mention and true George did get sent off but it wasn't as clear cut as you make it out to be to others on here - FACTAMUNDO
Barrel
I was at the game and it looked pretty clear cut to me and obviously the ref too
bluestar
05-12-2006, 12:51
strange - I have been through all of your previous posts Carrots - and despite, attending the Cambs Cup game and despite by your own admission witnessing at 1st hand the player getting struck I can find no mention on this site, by you, of a condemnation of said incident and yet, you are able to comment on Saturday's incident, which to my knowledge, you werent party to. :soo:
Nobody condones abuse of an official - but too many people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and condemn , let the facts come out, bans etc get issued before you start pontificating and mudslinging - just glad you ain't no friend of mine - with friends like you who needs enemies. :sad:
BLUE BOYS
05-12-2006, 20:40
carrots did well to see it as most of the players leaving the pitch knew nothing of it. but thats past why try to bring up rubbish on players to try and get them noticed for more trouble. fair enough it was the wrong thing to do and george will no that and im sure he has looked back on the incident and fully regrets it. but i wasnt there dont no the full story.
League meeting tonite - What do people think Will happen?
I hope they are not to harsh on George as i know he will be very upset with himself for what has happened. :sad:
couldn't agree more foggy. hope he doesn't get banned for life as that'd be a real shame. they just need to realise not everything is black and white and look at all the facts as every situation is different although what happened cannot be condoned and deserves severe punishment. just hope its not too severe!
i hear its the nhants fa that will be making the decision on punishments/ban so there may be no outcome from the meeting tonight.
Even though i dont know what happened totally. From previous experience, this sounds like it could be Sine Die. Unfortunate for the fella involved. Depending on how sympathetic the referee was in his report really. It has been known that a player that punched a referee, got a 6 month ban and not Sine Die, so he could get lucky
I think you will find that the league meeting was last night
Was this incident similar to the hilarious/comical Paulo DiCanio v's Paul Alcock bout of 1998? I think DiCanio won by TKO, although I still say it was a fix!
Seriously, I think its a shame that an 'incident' has happened which has involved a ref caling off a local game of amateur Saturday football. I don't play in the top division, but if we lose refs it will be the teams lower down the ladder where young promising players ply their trade in their early years who will suffer from any potential shortage. Alternatively the older more crap players, such as me, will lose their excuse to avoid shopping on a Saturday afternoon with the missus :lol:
I reckon the book will be thrown at the player involved to show support for the local refs from the FA. Even if this was out of character or not for the player involved I doubt he will find much sympathy in front of the powers that be.
Just to Clarify - The league meeting was last night. And according to my not so reliable source :lol: The unofficial quote is -
"The League have to wait for County FA to deal with it before they can take any action against the player"
so watch this space!!
Get yourself a better source Foggy !
Tommy Trophy
07-12-2006, 18:30
Foggy just to be clear, your source said that as with all cases of this nature, the league would not deal with the INCIDENT in its entirety until it has been dealt with by the County FA.
carefree
07-12-2006, 19:14
if george was a pro player he would only get an 8 game ban even if he had stabbed the ref 2 death!!
i think that every player shld get a 2nd chance, think that £250 comp for hitting the ref and a ban 4 the rest of the season should be enough, but we all know that its going to be a 10 year ban.
im dead against any attack on a ref, verbal or other, he is only giving what he sees, be it right on wrong, everyone has an off day yeah?
do think that the fa are in the dark ages when it comes the the local league players and pro's, 1 rule for 1 another 4 the other but the same rules on the pitch!!
is it right that a pro player also has 2 pay only £8 for a booking? admin i think, shocking
Don't agree with that for one minute Carefree, £250 is a good night out and no form of compensation at all and the end of the season is only 4 months away (thank ***k) what sort of message does that send out, at least a 2 year ban for a minor assault and I think there is a lot more to this incident than is common knowledge, also the PFA do not have to go along with anything the Northants FA deal out, they have any say that they like in what punishment to give the player.
I know nothing about the incident apart from what I've read, but the Punishments are found in the back of my county handbook (Cambs)and look like they are applied quite consistently across the counties. If the incident is proven punished the player looks to be looking at a couple of years to indefinate/10 years. It is sad for what is a moment of stupidity but an assault in the real world and you would be looking at a court appearance. I have seen incidents where players have had suspensions cut through the players subsequent actions, if anyone knows the player and wants more info then PM me. It depends on if there is remorse.
Sorry carefree, dont think that the comparison between the pro game and a local "park game" is relevant.
If a ref is assaulted in a pro game the level of intimidation is far less because he knows he will get protection from stewards,police etc.
We have all played with or against a few headcases in our time ( not accusing George of being one, dont know him!) and when they lose the plot who is there to offer protection to the victim. I know team mates, management or man with dog on sidelines should help but not everybody is a "have ago hero". For this reason i think refs deserve and should expect that these incidents are dealt with very harshly at amateur level.
However an automatic sine die isn't the answer either, every case needs to be looked at on its own merits and if the player involved wants to carry on playing he needs to get himself a personal hearing and plead his case.
Agree on the farce of the £8 admin fee though.
I think a ten year ban is ridiculous, 2 year ban, anger management courses perhaps, we all mellow with age anyway trust me :lol:
red card
10-12-2006, 10:37
not all of us spec. :lol:
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