The FA and Red Card appeals!
Just had a bit of banter with Ross on Facebook about this so thought I'd post it on here for opinion!
Rooney hacks someone off the ball in the euros and is sent off, our FA (clowns? you decide) appeal it and ask the ruling body to drop the 3 game ban down to 2 or even less, god knows how they have the nerve but they do and they win the case, so they must believe that sort of challenge isn't worth a 3 game ban?
Kompany does a wreckless but in my opinion very well time tackle on Nani, who by the way stays on his feet and doesnt appeal for a foul and the ref sends Kompany off handing him a 3 game ban plus another one as it's now his 2nd Red of the season, City appeal obviously thinking surely the FA will see no contact was made and it was just wreckless not worthy of a red and 3 games +1, but no they uphold the refs decision and the ban stays....
So whats it to be, is it do as your told and not as we do, from our FA?
In my opinion it's stuff like this that ruins our game and the publics perception of it, I'd now sooner watch the NFL or Rugby than some of our prem footy as some of the refs, players and FA's are making a mockery of it all...
Go on the REF WOSSY, tell us all about the LAWS of the game and how it was a red etc etc, but the point is are the FA right to appeal Rooneys and then turn down others?
Anyone that makes a tackle like Kompany did on a pitch where I'm reffing is only going to one place, and that's the showers! Answer this, If a player made a tackle like that on you I doubt very much you'd laugh it off. Kompany may have taken the ball, but his tackle was dangerous, that's the kind of tackle that ends careers. Chris Foy got it spot on.
Like I said on Facebook, I don't agree with the FA appealing Rooneys red card, I can see why they have though as let's face it, who else have England got to play up front? That must be the reasoning behind it, not saying its right though.
Don't like it? Take up playing chess
I thought so when first seeing it and ive just watched it again a few times from different angles and I still think it's the softest "two-footed" challenge I've seen. It's more of a scissor tackle than a two-footed dangerous lunge. I know a ref will say "laws of the game" but i completely disagree it was a leg-breaking challenge.
Nani is one of the biggest cry babies in football so for him not to react immediately or roll around 18 times speaks volumes.
Just my opinion anyway. Can prob tell im a centre back.
Re the Rooney thing I dont agree his offence should have been a 3 match ban in the 1st place. all reds in international tournaments (where only a handful of games are played) should be a 1 match ban, 2 at most. certain reds (eg Zidane's famous headbutt) could be considered worse, but i see rooney's as a petulant kick-out.
Yeah, Yeah, "rules are rules" im sure will be a response.
Foxy
Nothing wrong with either chalenge lol.The John Boy Walton incident at Molineux with Frank was far worse...........my a**e.Its a fact that some of them shouldnt be let near a game of football.
Tom Flynn
Couldnt agree less Ross! - what the F.A. are doing is killing the game by stealth nothing less - They have reduced the game and its laws to the point where its no longer a requirement for the referee to have any common sense at all - indeed if the referee now displays this he is automatically accused of not showing any " consitency" that's the F.A. pre- conditioning at work!
Its gone too far and unfortunately has past the point of return - The F.A. are now reaping what they have sown - with controversy following virtually every game - What they have never seemed to grasp is that with a game such as football its never going to be possible to have a law that fits all - they should have taken the road towards guidelines to recognise that no two games, incidents etc are EVER going to be the same - instead they try to produce a set of laws that have become so restrictive that some elements of the game, such as tackling are now an endangered species, and will soon be outlawed completely. Every week I witness officials who look like they are trapped in front of a a set of headlights, and consequently punish virtually every tackle and yet totally ignore the blatant pushing, and shirt tugging that goes on wheneve a corner or free kick is given around the box - The F.A are now clueless to stop this because they realise that with each edict they issue they compound the crappy situation they were instrumental in causing in the first place -
ONLY MY OPINION - RANT OVER - where's my chess board!
Last edited by bluestar; 12-01-2012 at 07:51. Reason: change to correct terms - Rules to Laws - sorry F.A.!!!
Agree Mick...
Ross, I certainly would laugh off a challenge like that and also applaud it, It was well timed and he got the ball without touching the player and as Foxy says (I've also re-watched it) the tackle is more a scissor sliding challange and certainly his only 'intent' is winning the ball which he does cleanly, so I'd have no issue with that if someone won the ball from me in that fashion and I would be royally p*ssed off if I made that challenge and was sent off as a result also!
But as Mick says, the Laws scare the ref into producing a red.
My main point though was that of the FA appealing the Rooney one and enforcing then enforcing things like this and turning down an appeal, It surely makes them look so arrogant it's unreal?
The laws are there to be enforced and any referee that isn't doing so, isn't doing his or her job. kompany may have taken the ball, but the fact that he went in two footed was reckless, you even said it yourself in the first post. It was an unnecessary challenge, using excessive force, so he has to walk. This is also what the disciplinary committee have agreed on, so the ban still stands. The 17 laws in football aren't that difficult to understand, in fact theyre pretty damn simple.
Being wreckless in football should not mean an instant Red card should it?
Whats happening to our game, are we breeding a game that doesnt allow any form of 50/50 challenge anymore?
Oh and should Johnson have got a red for his tackle this evening? 2 footed and won the ball cleanly, not a single City player complained but it was as bad or worse than Kompanys challenge, should a 3 game ban and a Red have been handed out there?
Seriously Ross you're standing up for the Laws/Rules like a lemming prepared to follow the FA into farsical relms! it is ok to disagree with them you know lol.
surely if you're a bit wreckless but with no intent and you win it cleanly then no harm done and you've executed a good tackle is what I mean.
anyway, you get my point I'm sure, I think Ross and most refs would stick up for the FA and their enforcement of their own rules whatever happens, thats part of the problem in my view, they're educated into believing anything outside of those set of rules (ok, sorry, LAWS) is rubbish and should be argued against and ignored...
rant over lol
And your last sentence Ross old son is exactly why football is in the state its in - if only everything was black and white eh?
So you sit on one side of the fence I will remain on the other and that damn fence gets higher year on year ....................
P.S. When did it change from apply the Laws to enforce the Laws - sums it up for me
Last edited by bluestar; 12-01-2012 at 07:45.
You can't have it both ways Sean, you do write some daft things sometimes! If your challenge is reckless, then it's reckless and deserves punishment! You cant say it was reckless, but didnt mean to be.
Johnson was a lucky boy last night, his looked worse than Kompanys.
As for disagreeing with the laws, are you suggesting that Fifa need to re write them? As I said above they're pretty damn simple to follow as they are. I've been trained to apply these simple laws, and that's what I go out and do, what's for me to disagree with. It's not a case of all referees sticking together at all, I'm merely applauding a job well done in Chris Foys case. In my opinion, he made the right decision, now whether you choose to agree with that or not is up to you, and youve made it perfectly clear that you don't, that's fine, but it seems you argue things for the sake of arguing most of the time.
Now I could sit here and call all players lemmings for not agreeing with the laws of football, is that fair?
Quite frankly I'm getting bored of going over the same thing again and again with you, as it seems that you're not willing to listen to my opinion at all. Instead berating all referees and the FA. If you don't like what the fa are doing, then don't involve yourself in football. Go and take up tiddlywinks. Although I'm sure you'll find something wrong with the organisation of that.
Ha ha Ross and YOU also write some pretty dopey stuff on occassion - nice to see you have reverted back to apply though - sounds much better than enforce dont'cha think LOL -
Sounds like a plan though - if you dont like something, dont try to change it just walk away and let them get on with it - wonder where we would be if we all took that stance, I'll get my coat
Last edited by bluestar; 12-01-2012 at 08:01. Reason: fat fingers !!!!
Did someone steal the jam out of your doughnut Ross)
Mate I'm not arguing with anyone, simply put my opinion across and you've been on here ranting about it coming out with things like take it or leave it etc, hardly a great way to debate an opinion is it? And it's perhaps that kind of attitude that miffs a lot of people about the FA, they enforce (I prefer apply also lol) laws and wont enter into any debate about whether they are right or not, unless of course it effects their national team and then they want a debate as long as they benefit from it...
As for being wreckless, most 50/50 challenges in a fast paced game are a little bit wreckless, they have to be or you'd never get near the bloody ball would you? but you have to temper that bit of wrecklessness with skill and judgement to ensure you dont foul anyone and thats what I believe Kompany and Johnson last night did, no foul and won the ball cleanly without any intent to harm anyone and I believe that shouldnt be punished, the ref last night let it go and none of the City players said a word, so surely the FA must take the ref to task and educate him in his error of applying their laws and also issue Johnson a respective Red Card to ensure everyone is treated the same?
But saying all that, my actual point was how come the FA appeal Rooneys synical and blatant hack off the ball and expect a reduction, but then ignore any other appeals that may or may not have a case? it was that point that really got me and I know it really does make the FA appear arrogant beyond belief.
My God, what ever happened to just plain common sense reffing?I have never been a stickler for the "rules" its how you adapt the "rules" for the better of the game surely.Take back the game.
Tom Flynn
Has anyone ever been taught how to tackle with two feet? I certainly haven't, and there is a reason for that, its dangerous and we all have work on a Monday. A similar example would be if you can name a driving instructor who teaches you how to undertake on a motorway......... just because people do it does not mean its right. There is an element of lazy defending at the moment, and players flying in like ninjas, so I have to say that the less we see of it the better. Yes, tackling is an art, but if you kick the ball with one foot, why do you need two to win it off an opponent. Sorry lads, I do not agree on this one.
Cor - just like times gone by a debate on Sportstalk! - Scouse by your logic are you advocating a dangerous tackle made using one leg is going to receive a lesser punishment than one made with two? Careful mate, because you are in danger of introducing common sense into the debate and that would never do, and getting close to my point which is use the LAWS as guidance and let the referee use his experience, knowledge and the situation at hand to make the decision.
Did not see a real issue with either tackle although Johnson did jump in but he can not defend anyway, both won the ball and no intent to hurt anyone. Aggressive tackling is part of the game and long may it continue just not to much on me.
Referee should be allowed to use his/her discretion and I think he got it right last night for Johnson but not for Kompany.
Nobody ever taught me how to tackle 1 footed or 2 footed to be honest, but I can do both (well used to be able too haha) and would like to be able to as long as I do it safely and without injuring anyone, To be honest though I think a yellow or stern talking too would have been a much better avenue on both tackles just to make the player aware that the ref didn't like that sort of challenge even though he won the ball cleanly and to not do it again, job done, but immediate reds when nobody was even fouled is a bit much in my opinion.
Anyway, you lot are too loyal to the English team to address my main point of how corrupt it is to appeal Rooneys ban when he hacks someone off the ball and then ignore other appeals that are far far less intentional and cynical haha.
Just thought id quote a pgmo assessor on the kompany tackle
I mentioned above about the FA appealing Rooneys red card. Can't say I agree with it, but are you telling me the Irish FA wouldn't do the same if it were Robbie Keane going to miss a major tournament?agree or disagree with Chris Foy decision, football refereeing is base upon interpretation and opinion.
CF is no rookie referee and would not have been influenced by WR shouting at him.
Was the tackle two footed?
Was excessive force used?
Did the tackle endanger the safety of opponent? Does the opponent have to take contact and be injured before a player is dismissed?
Between the tackle and the whistle there is a pause of 1/2/3 seconds which in my opinion CF was re-running his observation and deciding upon his action. The decision is not wrong.
English FA are under pressure to deliver a trophy, Rooney is one of the best players England have, so naturally they want to make him available for selection, to hopefully make an impact.
Don't forget though FIFA/UEFA could have rejected the appeal.
Thats better Ross mate, someone gave you your jam back for you doughnut?
I'd answer Yes to the 1st and NO to the rest of the questions that PGMO (whats that anyway) assesor posted and therefore reach a decision of not a red card, but thats just me I suppose...
Regards the Irish FA, who knows until such a situation arose, but I'd like to think Keane or another of our lads wouldnt be so bloody stupid as that idiot Rooney was in the first place and therefore wouldnt leave us in that position, I'd also like to think if they did do the same as the FA in that situation then they might be a bit more lenient on a team shortly afterwards when they appealed a red like Kompanys etc, but it's all hypothetical, I'm talking about a real situation that happened and it's my opinion that it really does make the FA look very biggoted as its one rule for them and another for everyone else and if you want to argue about it then go get your coat and take up chess or something haha.
But great comeback though Ross, much better to apply debate over enforcing opinion
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